Legislature(2019 - 2020)BARNES 124

03/11/2020 01:00 PM House RESOURCES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 138 NATIONAL RESOURCE WATER DESIGNATION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+= HB 151 ELECTRIC RELIABILITY ORGANIZATIONS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled but Not Heard
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+ SB 123 ELECTRIC RELIABILITY ORGANIZATIONS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 123(RBE) Out of Committee
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
<Companion Bill to HB 151>
           HB 138-NATIONAL RESOURCE WATER DESIGNATION                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:17:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR announced  the final  order of  business would  be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 138, "An  Act requiring the designation  of state                                                               
water  as  outstanding  national   resource  water  to  occur  in                                                               
statute; relating to management  of outstanding national resource                                                               
water  by  the  Department  of  Environmental  Conservation;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
[Before the  committee was the  committee substitute for  HB 138,                                                               
Version K, adopted as a  working document during the bill hearing                                                               
on 2/10/20.]                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR reviewed amendments adopted  at the bill hearing on                                                               
3/9/20, and forthcoming amendments.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:20:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR moved  to adopt  [Amendment 8,  K.24, labeled  31-                                                               
LS0811\K.24, Marx,  3/5/20, identified on the  audio recording as                                                               
Amendment 14], which read:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 31, through page 3, line 6:                                                                                   
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
                              "(C) a general description of                                                                     
                                        (i) what makes the                                                                      
                    water an outstanding national resource                                                                      
                    water, including a general description                                                                      
                    of the recreational  or ecological value                                                                    
                    that makes the water exceptional;                                                                           
                                        (ii) the existing                                                                       
            water quality and any technical data on                                                                             
                    which the description is based;                                                                             
                                        (iii) any nonpoint                                                                      
                    source activity to be conducted in the                                                                      
                    foreseeable future that may affect                                                                          
                    water quality;"                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Reletter the following subparagraphs accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER objected for discussion purposes.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  directed  attention  to Version  K,  on  page  2,                                                               
beginning on  line 26.  She  pointed out the items  necessary for                                                               
nomination include subparagraph  (C) an explanation; subparagraph                                                               
(D) a  description; subparagraph  (E) a  discussion; subparagraph                                                               
(F) an  analysis.   For clarity,  the amendment  instead provides                                                               
for  a   general  description  of   the  same  items   listed  in                                                               
subparagraphs (C), (D), (E), and (F).                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER recalled  he  raised a  question at  the                                                               
bill   hearing  on   3/9/20  related   to  [Amendment   8,  K.24,                                                               
subparagraph (C),  sub-subparagraphs (i) and (ii)],  that remains                                                               
unanswered.  He restated his question as follows:                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     If during  the designation of  a Tier 3  waterbody, you                                                                    
     have a baseline  number, let's say its 3,  and an added                                                                    
     resource extraction  or whatever  ... company  comes in                                                                    
     and  it  takes water  out  of  that source,  that  body                                                                    
     source,  and by  the time  it replaces  the water  that                                                                    
     it's  used  is  it  actually  cleaner.    So,  has  the                                                                    
     baseline  changed  to the  cleaner  water  that is  now                                                                    
     added to the water source  or is the original baseline,                                                                    
     which would be a lower mark,  the mark we adhere to for                                                                    
     going forward from then on ...?                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:25:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EMMA  POKON, Deputy  Commissioner,  Office  of the  Commissioner,                                                               
Department  of  Environmental  Conservation  (DEC),  was  unsure.                                                               
Federal  law  says the  water  quality  shall be  maintained  and                                                               
protected, so it  is unclear whether water quality  that has been                                                               
improved could be degraded from  that point.  In further response                                                               
to  Representative Rauscher,  she said  she was  inclined to  say                                                               
that once the  water has become cleaner, any  activity that would                                                               
degrade the water from the cleaner level would be disallowed.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER   asked  Representative  Tarr   how  Ms.                                                               
Pokon's response relates to the amendment.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR said  the language in the amendment  is included in                                                               
the bill  to describe the items  that are required to  complete a                                                               
nomination.   Her intent for the  amendment is to use  "a general                                                               
description"  because Version  K  uses explanation,  description,                                                               
discussion,  and   analysis,  which  is  confusing   for  citizen                                                               
nominators.    She asked  Representative Kopp to  further discuss                                                               
sub-subparagraphs (i) and (ii).                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:28:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHUCK KOPP, Alaska  State Legislature, speaking as                                                               
the sponsor  of HB 138,  confirmed (i) and  (ii) would be  in the                                                               
bill  regardless, because  (i) and  (ii) describe  what would  be                                                               
required in  the nomination packet;  he said he had  no objection                                                               
to [Amendment 8, K.24].                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SPOHNHOLZ pointed  out  the  amendment refers  to                                                               
nonpoint  source activity,  which  would be  inconsistent with  a                                                               
previously adopted amendment.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:32:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ  moved to  adopt Conceptual  Amendment 1                                                               
to [Amendment 8, K.24] to remove "nonpoint source" from line 9.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK objected for discussion purposes.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  reminded  the  committee  "nonpoint  source"  was                                                               
removed  from Version  K by  a  previous amendment,  so the  bill                                                               
would [address source and nonpoint source activities].                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
[There followed discussion to clarify the conceptual amendment.]                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:35:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK removed his objection.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[Although  not  stated  on  the  record,  the  committee  treated                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 1 to [Amendment 8, K.24], as adopted.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HOPKINS stated  small  scale  mining permits  may                                                               
require  mining operations  to discharge  water  that is  cleaner                                                               
after    mining   operations.       Under    the   aforementioned                                                               
circumstances,  he   questioned  whether  the   [improved]  water                                                               
quality downstream from  the mine would become  the new standard,                                                               
and  whether the  improved water  quality would  be considered  a                                                               
change to a Tier 3 waterway.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON  said if an  entity is operating with  water designated                                                               
Tier  3,   their  activity  would   not  be  prohibited   by  the                                                               
designation; if the entity is  improving water quality, DEC would                                                               
not  force  them  to  continue operations  if  the  cessation  of                                                               
operations  would result  in lower  water  quality; however,  the                                                               
cleaner water does  not create space for another  entity to begin                                                               
or increase discharge.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HOPKINS asked  whether  a mine  operation -  that                                                               
seeks to begin  operations on a Tier 3 waterbody,  and is granted                                                               
a permit that requires cleaner water  to be discharged - would be                                                               
allowed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON said DEC's evaluation on  a Tier 3 water is whether the                                                               
activity would  degrade the water  quality, if not,  the activity                                                               
would not be prohibited.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HOPKINS  surmised "degrading," not  "changing" the                                                               
water quality is the operative term.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON said yes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HOPKINS asked for  clarification of this issue "at                                                               
the federal level."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  POKON  was  unsure  whether  the  aforementioned  terms  are                                                               
specific or clear in EPA regulations.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said  some of the terms  used are clouded                                                               
by one's perception.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:40:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR asked  for  clarification on  two  questions:   an                                                               
activity can be  permitted upriver of a Tier 3  waterbody as long                                                               
as the  activity does  not degrade  water quality  in the  Tier 3                                                               
designated  area;  within  a  Tier  3  water,  if  there  were  a                                                               
permitted activity  that ceased operations, DEC  would not permit                                                               
a new activity to take the place of the previous activity.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON advised  an upstream activity that does  not affect the                                                               
water quality in  the Tier 3 waters,  if that can be  shown to be                                                               
the case ....  If there  were a potential to lower water quality,                                                               
proper permitting  of the upstream  activity would  be questioned                                                               
by DEC.   Also, DEC regulation 18 ACC 70.016(d)  is the provision                                                               
for lower water quality if temporary and limited.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR restated the second question.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  POKON pointed  out states  have interpreted  federal Tier  3                                                               
provisions  differently;  some  states  have  designated  Tier  3                                                               
waterbodies  for  their  recreational  or  ecological  qualities,                                                               
notwithstanding that water  quality standards were not  met.  She                                                               
advised  a "tradeoff"  of  one source  of  discharge for  another                                                               
would  not   be  allowed  under  the   strict  interpretation  of                                                               
regulations, and a new activity likely  would not be allowed.  In                                                               
further response  to Representative Rauscher, she  said allowable                                                               
activities for the  same operator would depend  on the provisions                                                               
of its  permit; if  there is  a change  in operations  that would                                                               
result in  a negative impact  on water quality, DEC  would review                                                               
the permit authorization.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:48:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK urged for a  written response to his previous                                                               
question as  to whether the  "baseline" is  an exact number  or a                                                               
description of the  water quality at a certain  point, or whether                                                               
the baseline can  change under some conditions.   For example, if                                                               
the  water quality  improves,  whether DEC  would  return to  the                                                               
baseline.   He  inquired as  to whether  DEC standards  relate to                                                               
degrading water  quality or changing  the character of  the water                                                               
quality.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:49:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOPP  pointed  out   the  determination  of  what                                                               
constitutes a Tier  3 waterbody is not a provision  of HB 138; he                                                               
acknowledged  the value  of  the questions,  but  noted the  bill                                                               
would only establish the process of a Tier 3 nomination.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON  offered to  provide written  responses in  addition to                                                               
stating that  when DEC  reviews permitting  from a  water quality                                                               
perspective, DEC looks  at whether a quality standard  is met and                                                               
if  there  is  capacity  for a  waterbody  to  accept  additional                                                               
discharges  without violating  water quality  standards.   Tier 3                                                               
differs  in that  there cannot  be any  degradation to  the water                                                               
quality,  which is  not  set to  a water  quality  standard or  a                                                               
numeric   value;   DEC   issues  permits   depending   upon   the                                                               
circumstances,  such  as  degradation   due  to  nonpoint  source                                                               
activity, and a baseline is not necessarily applicable.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  asked  for a  clarification  of  degrading  water                                                               
quality as compared to changing the character of water.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  POKON advised  DEC establishes  water  quality standards  to                                                               
protect  water   quality  for  a   variety  of   uses,  including                                                               
recreational use, or  for fish; an acceptable  level of pollutant                                                               
load  may  depend upon  the  use  of  the  water.   Changing  the                                                               
character of the  water may also depend on use  and would have to                                                               
be  evaluated  carefully  if  DEC  were  asked  to  authorize  an                                                               
activity.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:55:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  surmised when  DEC is  evaluating a  nomination it                                                               
would review water quality, water  character, and the degradation                                                               
of water quality.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON  said the Clean Water  Act directs DEC to  maintain and                                                               
protect water quality, thus an  activity that would degrade water                                                               
quality,  except in  a  temporary  or limited  term,  would be  a                                                               
challenge for DEC to authorize.   In further response to Co-Chair                                                               
Tarr, she  said DEC  regulations specify  "the lowering  of water                                                               
quality."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  recalled  previous  testimony  from  [Randy                                                               
Bates, director, Division of Water,  DEC], who stated there could                                                               
not be any  additional improvements to Tier 3  water quality, and                                                               
asked for  a written response  to this and other  questions about                                                               
EPA regulations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  POKON  said  DEC  would provide  responses  in  writing  and                                                               
directed  the   committee's  attention   to  regulation   18  ACC                                                               
70.016(d).                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN  asked whether  DEC is currently  using the                                                               
regulation  titled  18 AAC  70.017  Tier  3 Outstanding  Resource                                                               
Water [document  not provided].   She read from the  document and                                                               
said the described Tier 3  Outstanding Resource Water designation                                                               
process  has not  been completed,  followed, or  exercised.   She                                                               
asked  whether this  regulation  is being  applied,  when it  was                                                               
promulgated and adopted, and if  said waters have been treated as                                                               
Tier  3  waters.    Further,  to  the  sponsor  of  HB  138,  she                                                               
questioned why this regulation was excluded from the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:00:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON  said 18 ACC  70.017 was proposed  in 2014 but  was not                                                               
included  in  the  final  regulations   that  were  adopted;  DEC                                                               
currently has  adopted regulations on  rules for how to  manage a                                                               
Tier  3   water  after  designation,  and   because  the  current                                                               
designation process directs a  nomination through the legislative                                                               
process, no  Tier 3 waters  have been designated in  Alaska, thus                                                               
DEC has  not had an  occasion to  implement the regulations.   In                                                               
response to  Co-Chair Tarr,  she said the  regulations on  how to                                                               
manage Tier 3 water are within 18 ACC 70.016.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:02:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TREVER  FULTON, staff,  Representative Chuck  Kopp, on  behalf of                                                               
Representative Kopp, sponsor of  HB 138, confirmed the regulation                                                               
referenced by Representative Hannan was never adopted.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER asked  for confirmation  that there  are                                                               
Tier  3  waterbodies  in  the  Lower  48  that  don't  meet  "the                                                               
standards."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON  said in the  Lower 48,  states have designated  Tier 3                                                               
waterbodies that don't meet the  state's water quality standards,                                                               
but have exceptional ecological or recreational significance.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  suggested  cleaning  up  legacy  wells  may                                                             
affect their possible recreational significance as a tar pit.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER removed his  objection and there being no                                                               
further objection [Amendment 8, K.24], as amended, was adopted.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:08:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN moved to adopt  [Amendment 9, K.14, labeled                                                               
31-LS0811\K.14, Marx, 2/21/20, identified  on the audio recording                                                               
as Amendment 6], which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 11 - 17:                                                                                                     
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
               "(2)  by an affirmative vote of a majority                                                                       
     of the members of the commission,                                                                                          
               (A)   make a finding, within 60 days after                                                                       
       receipt of a nomination, of whether the nomination                                                                       
        complies with the requirements under (1) of this                                                                        
     subsection;                                                                                                                
               (B)  decide, within one year after finding a                                                                     
     nomination is in compliance, whether to recommend the                                                                      
       designation of the nominated water as outstanding                                                                        
     national resource water;"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 22 - 23:                                                                                                     
          Delete "the commission has determined meets"                                                                          
          Insert "found by the commission to meet"                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, lines 3 - 7:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
          "(f)  If the commission finds under (e)(2)(A) of                                                                      
     this section  that a nomination  is not  compliant, the                                                                    
     commission shall provide written  notice of the finding                                                                    
     to  the  resident  who submitted  the  nomination.  The                                                                    
     notice  must specify  the reason  for  the finding  and                                                                    
     describe how  the resident  may correct  the nomination                                                                    
     to comply  with the  requirements under (e)(1)  of this                                                                    
     section.  The resident  may  correct  and resubmit  the                                                                    
     nomination to the commission.                                                                                              
          (g)  Before deciding whether to recommend a                                                                           
     designation  of   a  nominated  water   as  outstanding                                                                    
     national resource  water, the commission  shall provide                                                                    
     an  opportunity for  public notice  and comment  on the                                                                    
     nomination.    A   member    who   votes    against   a                                                                    
     recommendation approved  by the commission  may provide                                                                    
     a written summary of the member's dissenting opinion."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Reletter the following subsections accordingly.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 8:                                                                                                            
          Delete "(e) or (f)"                                                                                                   
          Insert "(e)"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN explained the  amendment would set a 60-day                                                               
time limit for  the commission to make a finding  as to whether a                                                               
Tier  3 water  nomination complies  with nomination  requirements                                                               
and,  if a  nomination  is found  not  compliant, the  commission                                                               
would be required to provide  the nominator written notice of the                                                               
finding, describe  the reason  for the  finding, and  specify how                                                               
the  nomination  could be  made  compliant.   The  nominator  can                                                               
correct and resubmit the nomination to the commission.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:09:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:09 p.m. to 2:12 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN directed attention  to [Amendment  9, K.14]                                                               
and said  subparagraph (B),  found on [page  1, lines  8-10], and                                                               
subsection (g), found on [page  2, lines 1-5], have been achieved                                                               
by a previously adopted amendment.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ  said redundancy between  the previously                                                               
adopted amendment  and [Amendment 9,  K.14] is not a  problem and                                                               
supported  the  element  in  the   amendment  that  requires  the                                                               
commission to make a finding and respond to the nominator.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  directed  attention   to  line  21  and                                                               
questioned  why the  commission  would have  to  describe how  to                                                               
correct the nomination.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:15:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HANNAN  suggested  the commission  would  request                                                               
additional  descriptions  of  the  items it  needs  to  make  its                                                               
determination, and gave an example.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  proposed adding the words  "if possible"                                                               
preceding "describe."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HANNAN pointed  out "may,"  on line  21, releases                                                               
the  commission from  responsibility to  provide the  correction,                                                               
and  [sub-subparagraph (f)]  requires  only  that the  commission                                                               
inform the nominator of why the nomination does not comply.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[There  followed  a short  discussion  of  a possible  conceptual                                                               
amendment.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER moved to  adopt Conceptual Amendment 1 to                                                               
[Amendment 9,  K.14] on line  21, to insert "if  possible" before                                                               
the word "describe".                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:20:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARIE  MARX,  attorney,  Legislative Legal  Counsel,  Legislative                                                               
Legal  Services,   Legislative  Affairs  Agency,   explained  the                                                               
amendment provides that if the  commission finds a nomination not                                                               
compliant it must report what  is missing from the nomination and                                                               
how the nomination  can be fixed; the language,  "the notice must                                                               
specify  the reason  for the  finding," is  meant to  provide the                                                               
nominator an idea  of what can be done.   The language, "describe                                                               
how  the resident  may correct  ..." is  related to  the finding.                                                               
For example,  if a nominator  is missing a  specific description,                                                               
the notice  would specify the  description needed.  She  said "if                                                               
possible" is  not language typically  seen in statute  and opined                                                               
the notice does not need to  be a detailed description of what is                                                               
missing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HANNAN,  on  the   advice  of  Legislative  Legal                                                               
Services, maintained her objection.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK said  he would  not  support the  conceptual                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR interpreted  Representative Rauscher's  concern to                                                               
be that a correction of  the nomination application could lead to                                                               
a successful Tier 3 water  determination and surmised that is not                                                               
the intent of the amendment.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARX pointed out the  difference between a recommendation and                                                               
a  nomination:   a recommendation  is the  final decision  by the                                                               
commission on whether  to forward a nomination of  a waterbody to                                                               
the  governor  and  the   legislature;  the  amendment  addresses                                                               
whether a  nomination is complete so  it may be evaluated  by the                                                               
commission.    If  a  nomination   is  missing  information,  the                                                               
commission must  inform the  nominator, but  the notice  does not                                                               
constitute a recommendation.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:26:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO  observed any  finding by  the commission                                                               
would reveal  compliance or not  compliant with  the requirements                                                               
of a nomination.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARX,  in  response  to   Co-Chair  Tarr,  acknowledged  the                                                               
amendment adds additional requirements  as to what the commission                                                               
must do in response to a nomination.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOPP agreed  with  Representative  Tuck that  the                                                               
requirements  for a  nomination are  general; in  regard to  [the                                                               
amendment on  page 1,  lines 5-7],  he opined  a 60-day  limit is                                                               
insufficient for the  committee to make a finding,  and urged the                                                               
committee to consider a 90- to 120-day limit.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR asked  Ms.  Pokon to  advise  on the  department's                                                               
capacity to respond to requests  from the commission for data and                                                               
other information within a 60-day window.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. POKON was unsure of the  volume or accessibility of data that                                                               
may be requested and said 60 days seems reasonable.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  withdrew   Conceptual  Amendment  1  to                                                               
[Amendment 9, K.14].                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:32:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO  moved to  adopt Conceptual  Amendment 2,                                                               
which read:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, beginning at line 20 [in part]:                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The notice must specify the reason for the finding and                                                                     
     allow the nominator to resubmit the nomination to the                                                                      
     commission.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TALERICO   explained  subparagraph   (f)   fully                                                               
describes:     nomination,  not   compliant,  the   finding,  and                                                               
providing notification  of not compliant.   Therefore, Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 2 more simply accomplishes  the intent of [lines 21-23,                                                               
in part].                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  objected.    He  concluded  the  conceptual                                                               
amendment shortens the language of the amendment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR noted,  for  consistency in  the  language of  the                                                               
bill, the use of resident instead of nominator.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:37:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR said  in the  final version  of the  bill resident                                                               
would be replaced with qualified  nominator, so Legislative Legal                                                               
Services  will   be  asked  to  make   conforming  changes  where                                                               
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked whether  Conceptual Amendment 2 removes                                                               
that the commission  would describe how the  resident may correct                                                               
the nomination.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO pointed  out  [on page  1, beginning  on                                                               
line  18] the  amendment reads,  "if the  commission finds  under                                                               
(e)(2)(A) of  this section, that  a nomination is  not compliant,                                                               
the commission  shall provide  written notice  of the  finding to                                                               
the  resident  who submitted  the  nomination."   He  opined  the                                                               
written notice  of the  finding would address  the notice  of not                                                               
compliant.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TUCK  agreed   the  finding   would  include   a                                                               
description  of  not  compliant with  the  minimum  requirements;                                                               
however, he  asked if  the conceptual  amendment removes  how the                                                               
resident may correct the nomination.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO said  no.   The intent  is to  allow the                                                               
nominator to resubmit the nomination.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK explained how  the conceptual amendment would                                                               
eliminate  - by  intent  or  by accident  -  that the  commission                                                               
describe how the resident may correct the nomination.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO  said the finding of  not compliant would                                                               
provide the direction needed to correct the nomination.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK maintained his objection.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:42:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR said  one may be satisfied that  the written notice                                                               
of the  finding would  provide why  the nomination  is incomplete                                                               
and thereby  would suffice for  how the resident may  correct the                                                               
nomination.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK,  following  the  aforementioned  reasoning,                                                               
suggested there  is no need  for the  part of the  sentence, "the                                                               
notice must specify the reason ..."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO  said  "The   notice  must  specify  the                                                               
reason" is key  to the descriptive nature of what  is, or is not,                                                               
compliant.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK removed his objection.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARX,  in response  to  Representative  Hannan and  Co-Chair                                                               
Tarr,   opined  the   conceptual  amendment   would  change   the                                                               
requirements  in the  amendment; subparagraph  (f) requires  that                                                               
the commission  provide written notice  of its finding,  but does                                                               
not specify  that the reason  for the finding would  be included.                                                               
The second  sentence provides  that the  reason is  specified and                                                               
how the nomination may be  corrected and resubmitted.  The policy                                                               
choices are:   provide  the resident notice  of the  finding that                                                               
the nomination  is not complete;  provide notice and  reasons for                                                               
the  finding; provide  a  notice, describe  the  reasons for  the                                                               
finding,  and  how  to  complete   the  nomination;  whether  the                                                               
resident  can correct  the nomination  and resubmit;  whether the                                                               
resident submits a new nomination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:46:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN objected to the conceptual amendment.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO cautioned  against the  possibility that                                                               
the  commission   would  be  required   to  actually   craft  the                                                               
nomination  instead  of  only  explaining  the  reasons  for  its                                                               
finding; he expressed confidence  nominators would easily respond                                                               
to the finding  of not compliant and correct the  nomination.  He                                                               
said he would accept the addition of "correct and" resubmit.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  expressed opposition  to a  situation in                                                               
which the commission would be doing the work for the nominator.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  expressed his  opposition to  the conceptual                                                               
amendment because  it would  change the  intent of  [Amendment 9,                                                               
K.14].                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR   expressed  her  opposition  to   the  conceptual                                                               
amendment  because the  use of  "may" addresses  circumstances in                                                               
which the commission would "handhold" the nominator.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:52:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call  vote  was taken.    Representatives  Rauscher  and                                                               
Talerico voted in  favor of Conceptual Amendment  2 to [Amendment                                                               
9,  K.14].   Representatives  Tuck,  Hannan, Hopkins,  Spohnholz,                                                               
Lincoln,  and  Tarr voted  against  it.   Therefore,  [Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 2] failed by a vote of 2-6.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:52:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LINCOLN  observed  the commission  would  be  reviewing                                                               
nominations,  some  of  which  may be  incomplete,  and  gave  an                                                               
example of how the commission's  difficult and important work may                                                               
suffer  from  possible delays.    He  moved to  adopt  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 3, which read:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Delete 60 and replace with 120                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   TUCK  urged   the  committee   to  compare   the                                                               
commission's workload and timeline  to other commissions, such as                                                               
the Regulatory Commission of Alaska  (RCA), and to seek a balance                                                               
between the commission's workload and timeline.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOPP advised  RCA is  a fulltime  commission that                                                               
works year-around  with a fulltime  staff and cannot  be compared                                                               
to a volunteer advisory commission.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:56:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARX was unsure of the  timelines that are directed for other                                                               
commissions; furthermore,  the advisory  commission is  unique in                                                               
its nomination and recommendation process.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  recalled  there  are  five  nominations                                                               
awaiting vetting by the commission  and expressed his support for                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 3.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SPOHNHOLZ   questioned   the   extent   of   the                                                               
commission's staff support.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:58:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LINCOLN   stated  the   bill  currently   requires  the                                                               
commission to meet and vote  on whether a nomination is compliant                                                               
and, within  one year, decide  whether to make  a recommendation.                                                               
He  pointed out  the timeline  that  is set  would determine  how                                                               
frequently the commission meets.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR,  speaking  from  her  personal  experience,  said                                                               
boards and commissions have practical logistics issues.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HANNAN, speaking  as  sponsor  of the  amendment,                                                               
said the advisory  commission may not have  adequate staffing for                                                               
quarterly meetings and  agreed to the change to 120  days made by                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 3.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:01:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  removed her objection  and there being  no further                                                               
objection, Conceptual Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK moved to adopt  Conceptual Amendment 4, which                                                               
read:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 6:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     following "nomination," add:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     and 90 days for any corrected nomination that has been                                                                     
     resubmitted,                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  said the intent of  the conceptual amendment                                                               
is that  a corrected nomination  that has been  resubmitted would                                                               
not have to be subject to a 120-day process.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARX advised  as long  as the  committee grants  Legislative                                                               
Legal  Services  authority  to   make  technical  and  conforming                                                               
changes, the  conceptual amendment  would be incorporated  in the                                                               
final draft.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:03:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  removed her objection  and there being  no further                                                               
objection,  Conceptual Amendment  4  to [Amendment  9, K.14]  was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:03:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  removed her objection  to [Amendment 9,  K.14] and                                                               
there  being  no  further  objection,   [Amendment  9,  K.14,  as                                                               
amended], was adopted.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:04:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[HB 138 was held over.]                                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 123 Sponsor Statement 2.25.2020.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 CS(RBE) Version O 2.26.20.PDF HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SB 123
SB 123 Explanation of Changes v. O.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 Sectional Analysis v.O 2.25.2020.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 Intent Statement 2.24.2020.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 - Response to S FIN questions 3.6.2020.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 Sponsor Presentation 3.3.2020.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 Presentation RRC ODT 3.3.20.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 Public Testimony CIRI 3.2.20.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/9/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 AIPPA RRC presentation 1-29-20.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 REAP Public Testimony.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 - Acronyms 2.29.2020.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 Public Testimony AKPIRG.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
SB 123 - Public Testimony - Laing.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SFIN 3/3/2020 9:00:00 AM
SB 123
HB 138 Draft CS v. K.pdf HRES 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Sponsor Statement 2.4.2020.pdf HRES 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Sectional Analysis v. K 2.4.2020.pdf HRES 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Fiscal Note CS(RES)-DFG-CO-2-14-20.pdf HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Fiscal Note CSHB138-DNR-MLW-2-17-20.pdf HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Fiscal Note HB138CS(RES)-DEC-WIF-02-16-20.pdf HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB138 Supporting Document - Legal Opinion re HB 138 and Ballot Initiatives 5.1.19.pdf HRES 5/3/2019 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB138 Supporting Document - Legal Opinion re DEC Statutory Authority to Designate Tier 3 Waters 5.2.19.pdf HRES 5/3/2019 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Supporting Document - Legal Opinion re Person and Resident definitions 2.13.20.pdf HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Testimony - As of 2.21.20.pdf HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Testimony - As of 2.13.20.pdf HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Testimony - As of 2.17.20.pdf HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Testimony - 2.21.20-2.22.20.pdf HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB138 Supporting Material DEC Final Tier 3 Guidance 4.22.2019.pdf HRES 4/29/2019 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB138 Supporting Material DEC Tier 3 Water Designation FAQ 4.22.2019.pdf HRES 4/29/2019 1:00:00 PM
HRES 5/3/2019 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/10/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Supporting Document - Tier 3 Nominations.pdf HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB138 Supporting Document - DEC Summary of Tier 3 Designations 3.2019.pdf HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB138 Supporting Document - DEC Letter re Review of Tier 3 in Other States 5.3.19.pdf HRES 2/14/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/17/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment One - Spohnholz 2.13.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Two - Tarr 2.20.20.pdf HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Three - Lincoln 2.20.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Four - Hannan 2.20.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Five - Hannan 2.20.20.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Six - Hannan 2.20.20.pdf HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Seven - Hannan 2.20.20.pdf HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Eight - Hannan 2.20.20.pdf HRES 2/24/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Nine - Tuck 2.20.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Ten - Spohnholz and Lincoln 2.20.20.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Eleven - Lincoln 2.21.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Twelve - Lincoln 3.3.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Thirteen - Tarr 3.5.30.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Amendment Fourteen - Tarr 3.5.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Conceptual Amendment Fifteen - Tarr 3.9.30.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 HRES Conceptual Amendment Sixteen - Tarr 3.9.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
HB 138 Testimony - 2.23.20 - 3.6.20.pdf HRES 3/9/2020 1:00:00 PM
HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138
SB 123 CS(RBE) Fiscal Note - DCCED-RCA 3.6.20.PDF HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
SB 123
HB 138 Testimony - As of 3.10.20.pdf HRES 3/11/2020 1:00:00 PM
HB 138